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Episode 1 – Rubblebucket | KAS Music Studios | Alex Lipsen
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on May 16, 2010Popyoularity » Daily Dish Media Vault » Rubblebucket Announce Their Fall “Triangle Tour,” Free MP3
on October 4, 2010Rubblebucket Announce Triangle Tour!
on October 4, 2010AvantTrash » Blog Archive » For Your Consideration: Rubblebucket “Triangular Daisies” (Free mp3) : From Hollywood to Chicago: Trashing Entertainment, Fashion, Music, Movies, Celebrity, Art, Society...
on October 4, 2010Masters of There Day | Music News And Information
on October 8, 2010
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Jesus….. I know this is 4 years later, but the amount of monday morning quarterbacking on this one is amazing. Anyone who can publicly criticize a mix like this need to post their work, and let’s see who can mix. Put up or shut up.
P.S. Tons of bands that I work with, who sell records, love this track!
Thank you, Jason!
Before tonight I’d never heard of this band. I downloaded the hires file. The sound quality is fine. As a showcase for the mic pre’s it’s surely a success. Kal’s voice is pure honey here. Unforced, relaxed, “natural” and smooth.
The criticisms regarding lack of dynamic range have merit, however, even for “a dance record.” And no, as listeners we’re not concerned at which stage compression is applied. In my opinion it’s fair to consider that every song deserves a chance of drama; these are small scale stories being told.
When the song is bopping’ along at the fast clip, sure, it’s appropriate for there to be nearly no dynamic change — it’s just drive-drive-drive. But there were two opportunities missed, one at about the halfway mark and later towards the ends.
These bridges, when things relaxed for a little while, were followed up with drums and horns that *should* have swept us up and away, really lifted up the sense of scale of what was happening. But it’s actually strange to hear horns come in a’blazin … and the music’s no louder. That’s when it becomes particularly obvious that the preceding quiet part wasn’t as soft as it should have been, and that this is more of a mechanical recording and less of a musical performance.
You’ll get no criticism from me concerning the mix. I’m glad the drums were kept fairly generic, not sharp/snappy, as there’s nothing interesting being played there. The percussionist was nailed, brother! Clear, and clear of tone without being in-your-face obvious. Same with guitar. There when it needed to be, not when it didn’t.
Keep up the good work, and don’t be afraid to permit some drama shine through next time — it was written into the song.
This song makes me want to be a rock star.
I can not get either download to work. what is the method on a mac?
Hold the ‘control’ key and click on the link…then choose “Save Link As…”
Hello Elias,
I have been studying this video for a bit ..
As a Recording Engineer i would like to really say the Tracking is Very good considering the time factor .
But the Mix can be opened up way better than it sounds right now .
The Perception of Depth can make a “hollow” mix sometimes, if you know what i mean ..
The only thing in this track that really bothers is the lack of creative input from the band ..
The Bassline could have really helped if it was played better .. The Drums and Percs needed more thought too …
Kalmia’s voice is quite off key … If time was a factor, you could have tuned it in Pro Tools ..
Did the band feel this way ?
The Hi-Res mix helps , but i would love to get my hands on the Raw Tracks of this session ..
Is that possible in any way ??
The raw tracks can be found here:
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/music-tracks/rubblebucket.php
Use the links to the .zip files that are in the paragraph at the top of that page.
Regarding your comments, I guess that we didn’t feel that any of these things were problematic. The band had 95% of the creative input for the song, in terms of arragement. The only thing the engineers and I did was get the tones that would make the record move.
test comment
Elias, you surprise me! (That is of course unless your being sarcastic.)
I hope you don’t record Clarinet by jamming a mic down the bell..
What surprised you? That I was unfamiliar with the french-horn recording technique you mentioned? Yeah…sorry…I never heard of it.
I’ve never tried recording a clarinet by putting a mic in the bell, but I’d be willing to try it. Usually my mic technique goes like this: I ‘scan’ the space around the instrument with one of my ears, and when I find the spot that produces the sound that best suites the recording, I put a mic there. Then I listen to it in the control room to make sure the mic is picking up what I heard. If not, I’ll have an assistant move/rotate/replace the microphone until I get what I want.
This initiative is really nice. Watching the video adds to the experience when listening to the song later on. It adds the emotion bit to the music. Kalmia is very much into it and it’s always great to feel this.
I hear a bit of reverb/echo on the main vocals … is that wanted or just the studio acoustics ? (or me )
Both: the verb/echo is both wanted and coming from the natural studio-acoutics. I had two mics about 20-feet away from her while she was singing, and I mixed those in as my ‘reverb’
Elias,
I’m into a different type of genre, but I can truly say I ENJOYED this song. Watching this all come together thru all the ups and downs was great! I do some recording myself with a band so I know the feeling of trying to get it all together. Really like the song, so now I have my own copy! Keep up the good work!
Hi there,
Just found this site, and I think its great! I don’t post comments on things much online but thought I would chime in as you have been getting such negative comments. Im sorry. Sometimes people in this industry can be brutal! Whatever happened to constructive criticism? Elias, it is very honorable that you are able to take these comments so well and even pick out good things from them. That is a rare trait of a truly great engineer/producer!
As for the sound I think its great! That room sound is really cool. Bass and drums have a cool vibe together. Sure it is compressed sounding, but I can totally feel what you were going for! You can really feel some stuff like the bass, and drums etc right up front but can still really hear that room on a lot of other stuff. Its cool, and there is no ‘rule’ saying a really compressed sound can’t be cool. Don’t let these guys get to you, especially when they are looking at a waveform in their program of choice and telling you it sounds bad…. They should use there ears, not their eyes!
Again though its very admirable that you are taking some things that have been said and learning from them. We are always learning in this industry, I just wish people were more cordial about sharing their thoughts. Please keep it up, Ill stay posted.
Best,
Chase
Thanks Chase! Your words were great to hear…or read…
Now that’s what I’m talkin’ about! EXCELLENT! Where do I get the CD?
You can download a lossless version of this song by clicking on the button to the right of the video (“Came Out Of a Lady … Download This Track”).
Also, the band has plenty more recordings available at http://www.Rubblebucket.com
Thanks!
-Elias
Elias,
How did the band like the final track?
They liked it a lot (at least I think so!!).
cool lo max un saludo para todos
First you had the naysayers and playerhaterz, now you have to deal with the “moaners”… This is a great show Eli! I can’t wait to see more episodes. That idea about posting multitracks is great, lets see the moaners put up or shut up. Your calm trouble shooting demeanor is a great asset in the studio. This is the show i want to see…
Take care,
Joe
Hi Joe…Thanks for watching our show!
As for the ‘critics’, I’m glad to hear from them. Answering their criticisms forces me to consider intent and reasoning. As I’m sure you’re aware, sometimes you subvert the dominant paradigm, and sometimes the dominant paradigm subverts you.
All the best,
-Elias
Just wanted to say that this seems like a great initiative. Can’t wait to see the rest of the videos/mixes that come along.
Thnx John!
Please consider sharing this link w/ friends, family, co-workers, other music-loving people on forums, blogs, etc. Doing so will re-assure those who are facilitating this project, which will allow it to continue into the future.
Thanks!
Elias
Very, very nice video. Keep up the nice work!
Many thanks, Hugo!
Hello,
What a wonderful idea! I loved watching the great video that presented the story behind the recording. I also respect the engineering decisions that went into creating it, including “overdriving” the bass, kick, toms, and tuba. I love the vocal work and the tune. The mix builds quickly, and there’s a lot going on thoughout.
From a strictly stereo image/illusion perspective, the only thing that I struggled with was the somewhat non-musical tones resulting from overdriving or clipping a few of the instriuments (see the link below which shows this in the waveform) in the mix. These prevented my brain from beliving the accoustic space that envelops the vocalist, guitar, trumpet, sax, and percussion (excluding the drum set). I wouldn’t even mind it, but I happened to notice that there is a nice sense of space there. I really wanted to enjoy this dimension of the recording, but the overdriven instruments kept getting in my way, collapsing the image–interrupting the illusion. Make sense?
http://www.dsnyder.ws-e.com/images/Clipping.png
Again, I get the thick, funky, “overdriven” sound that you were going for, and I think that it works overall. I’m also grateful to you guys for sticking your necks out there to give this a go. Music production and apperciation is obviously a very subjective art, so not everyone is going to love every track no matter what you do. I do hope that you stick with it! Cheers.
– David
Yeah, totally… Its a hybrid of natural sounds w/ an affected kick-drum.
Thanks for checking it out!
Dear Elias,
let me first stress this: I believe that you are absolutely doing the right thing here – we need real studios with real rooms and professional equipment, you can not achieve the same magic in a converted basement or garage, no matter how many gadgets you throw in there and no matter how spacious your abode. This said I like to see people going back to vinyl, not for nostalgic reasons but to marvel and study how all this information went into these grooves which we are still discovering with ever better cartridges and playback equipment. Then read a lot and try to kind of reverse-engineer the processes; if you don’t have a mentor who did record in those not too distant days to learn from. I mentioned the fight in my post and as people who have an understanding know, it was a constant battle between the noise floor of the equipment and the amount of level you could hit it with. This sharpened your skill in extracting just what the essence of an instrument (or voice) was about and your EQ was subtractive 90 % of the time. Also, and this is perhaps as crucial as it is ironic – your mix was presented on cassette tape to your clients. Another huge noise and un-dynamic monster ever so fickle to be consistent from the car to the home to someone’s office. Yet there are tapes out there still that knock your socks off; without noise reduction and all. We should have dreamed of such quality delivery mediums as varied and instant and, look Ma – no noise! as we have today at our disposal. One example that was an eye-opener when I was a student: we had to record French Horns, now, everybody has that sound in their head from so many movie scores. But when we put the Sennheiser bricks on the floor and pointed them at the horns we were dismayed.
You could hear everything: the guys breathing, the valves click, the spit cackle- but not that sound. Our teacher had us take a door panel out of an office room, propped it up horizontally behind the players and had us point the mikes at the panel – there was that sound, no EQ, no gates, no nothing. On top of that, now you could actually sweeten that foundation, remember: You can make something bad better but never good – and you can make something good even better. Thanks for devoting your time and resources to this important project.
Hans
This is great stuff, Hans. I love hearing about this kind of stuff. Thanks for sharing!
Keep in touch…
Hans,
That should be no surprise to you.
That’s the way French Horns are recorded. Hard baffles behind the player(s) and mics pointed at the baffles.
Hmmm… I’ve never heard of this, but it sounds like an interesting approach. I’ll have to try it sometime.
Ladies and gentlemen,
it is after much deliberation that I post my musings here, especially after having left audio- specifically recording engineering, the bastard child of music some twenty years ago. You seem to be skipping the fundamentals, not going back to them as is evident in this track, a textbook case. As any imaging professional will tell you: A camera sees not what our eyes see, we have to make it so. Equally: A microphone is not an ear much less a head between a pair of ears, it is all an interpretation happening in our mind based on experiences past and present. I vividly recall the RCA Studios on Sunset, now long gone with the building itself – A large (Rupert) Neve console, two plates and a gold foil for reverb and maybe 4 or five Urei LA – 4 / 1176 as outboard gear. With all the equipment of today and the blessings that it offers – you would do well to listen to Lee Michaels self-titled album which was recorded in one day in it’s entirety, just for the drums alone.
Back then one had to fight more than just capture and then carve the essence out. This said I applaud Benchmark’s efforts, I have purchased their products and find them excellent and I think the group featured here merits the attention. It is not my aim to criticize but to hopefully encourage study and a desire to carry the analog knowledge of many decades that had to be fought for so hard into the infant future of digital.
Hans,
Thanks for the comment. It’s good to hear advice from someone who has been in the trenches.
What specifically would you recommend that we do differently?
Did you download the lossless track? If not, I highly recommend it. It’s just to the right of the video on this page (MastersFromTheirDay.com). YouTube audio doesn’t do it justice…
Thanks,
Elias
ps. I’m going to find that Lee Michaels album and give it a good listen
Thanks Mullard, Thanks Josef!
The band is:
Kalmia Traver – lead vocals, tenor sax
Alex Toth – Trumpet, Musical Director
Adam Dotson – trombone
Dave Cole – drums
Mark Stewart – bass
Ian Hersey – guitar
Kieta Ogawa – Percussion
WOW! good work guys n gals. Given that there’s a camera crew running around filming everything can be a little distracting no? Great video, I really enjoyed watching this. Given the time crunch, it’s amazing all the same. Who’s this singer? she’s got a great voice. I noticed you gave props to all the behind the scenes crew, engineers etc at the top of the page. However, I may have missed it, but It would be nice to credit the names of the Musicians / vocalist too. Thanks for sharing. Peace. Josef Horhay. Mixing Engineer.
An incredible project, providing delightful insights into the process of recording a real-time ensemble of musicians who actually seem to like playing together! And the hi-rez AIFF sounds great through my Benchmark DAC and Sennheiser HD600 “cans”; awesome stuff!!
I’m sure Benchmark Dac’s are great. That’s not the point. Song, Musician, instrument, recording space; microphones, in that order or priority provides 99% of what one hears, qualitatively. Yes, preamps, dacs, compression, gates, eq, mixing is all important, and effect the impact of the final product. I like the idea of tracking a complete song in a day. Overdubbing is the bane of modern music production. As a musician/engineer, there have been several occasions on which to first take of musicians playing together a new song had an energy/magic that never repeats itself, again, even if the performance wasn’t perfect, the freshness of discovery is more important than clinical perfection.
Cliff, I agree 100%.
Thanks so very much for taking the time to explain things and reminding us that this recording was for fun!
After hearing your side of the story, I don’t mind the compression quite as much as I used to. However, I’d still insist the loudest parts of the song kinda turn into a noise blast that induces ear fatigue. Of course this is related to my system and music preferences. Nearly all my recordings are of the audiophile category, so my ears are not accustomed to this kind of production. And I’m not the only one here.
Us audiofools don’t have the greatest tastes in music, and we often insist on impractical recording methodologies. We’re listening to the gear. Let’s open our ears first to hear what you’re creating without jumping to hasty accusations.
~~~
I’d like to say on a positive thought that the resolution here sounds FANTASTIC. I’m impressed and my ears eagerly await the minimally processed recording. And you’ve certainly nailed the concept of FUN!
Make those bits byte,
-j
You mean those overly bassy tracks that roll off at 10k?
I don’t follow…???
…sorry.
Elias,
Could you expand on the idea of dynamic compression for a drummer’s point of view? Many others and I don’t really understand how cutting dynamics necessarily reinforces a beat. Why not lower other parts of the mix and jack the drums? The audio here just feels completely overdriven, which really isn’t demostrating the full potential of your DACS.
I’m no recording engineer, but I’ve never understood why harsh volume compression and limiters are desirable beyond the scope of competing loudness and playback on computer speakers.
Had to turn down my stereo on this one because it was very loud–relatively speaking.
See a graphical analysis: http://imagebin.ca/view/K1FLpA.html
And why is Stereophile linking to this? hmmm….
Hey Joel,
Thanks for the questions…I’d be happy to explain….I love talking about this stuff!
But first, let me say that the goal of this production isn’t to demonstrate the full potential of the equipment, etc. The goals, in the order of priority, are:
1. Make a fun and inspiring video about these recording sessions
2. Demonstrate the brainstorming/decision-making process used to achieve a desired musical/sonic outcome
3. Produce an effective track based on a deliberate idea of what that means for the given track (e.g., danceable or natural or ethereal or…)
4. Discuss the outcome with anyone and everyone, such as yourself
The goal for this particular session was to create a dance track. Consequently, it may not sit well with certain people or settings. Nonetheless, we had a goal in mind, and I did my best to achieve it.
Back to your production questions… the compression on the drums is somewhat unrelated to the idea of “drummer’s point of view”. The “drummer’s point of view” is more related to the depth of field. That is, the mix was made to feel like you were sitting in the drummer’s seat on the stage. The depth of field is created by the varying proximity of the instruments, from close to far: Bass, Percussion, Synth, Gtr, Horns, Vocals.
The compression on the kick drum is a 3-band compressor. It’s purpose is to shape the tone of the kick drum, specifically for the kick to have ‘shake-your-booty’ impact while still sitting nicely in the mix. If instead I just lowered everything else and turned-up the drums, the balance of the mix would be thrown off. Plus, the tone of the kick is exactly what was in my head for this track…so I went for it!
But this use of compression is somewhat different then reducing the dynamics of the performance (i.e., what is used to boost volume). Specifically, my use of compression on the kick is affecting the micro-dynamics – that is, the dynamics of the envelope of the kick drum (the attack, decay, release, sustain).
So, please keep in mind that this production style was used for this track for aesthetic (subjective) purposes…not to compete with FM radio. I’d hope that all of my productions would transcend genre and be enjoyable for EVERYBODY…perhaps I came up short this time.
Please sign up for future videos…the next video features a delicate yet lush track that is mostly acoustic and minimally processed (and not built for the dance floor!).
Best,
-e
This is a cool insight into recording.
I’m 19 and currently studying Sound Production here in Scotland. Amazing studios we have at the college, millions of £’s of equipment. Couldn’t be more fun!
Any ideas when the next episodes will be posted?
We’re aiming for 1 per month, but it will depend on what kind of response we get. Be sure to sign up to be notified of new episodes (either via this website or our YouTube page…or both).
Also, if you like the project and want to see it continue frequently, please help by spreading the word (twitter, facebook, blogs, etc).
Thanks!
-e
WOW, WHAT A GREAT BAND!
Well done everyone who worked on this youve really captured the energy!
This is excellent! Beautiful work, everyone!
Thanks Stephen!
It means a lot coming from you. I really like your blog, both for the music you recommend and the way its written.
Regarding all of your feedback on the sonic quality, I need to say:
As producer, I take full responsibility for any issues with the sonic quality of this production, for better or worse.
We had fantastic engineers in Alex Lipsen and Joe Castellon, musical powerhouse Rubblebucket, legendary KAS studio, Gavin Lurssen (!) mastering, and a rack of Benchmark equipment. For any shortcomings in this production, its only me holding it back. I am proud of this production, but any faults are mine to own.
Also I should say, if you only listened to the track via the YouTube video, it shouldn’t be a surprise that the sound quality is pot. Download and listen to the lossless version of the track (it’s free…available in the column just to the right of the video on this page).
Thank you for your feedback…I truly appreciate it…I want to hear it.
Best,
Elias
Thanks Tom!
Loved it Eli. Very entertaining to see you at work, and I like the idea behind the restriction-fueled creativity. Looking forward to seeing more
I like what you guys are trying to accomplish, however i also agree with some of the other guys that it sounds clipped and distorded, perhaps the gig was to big for the engineer?, dont know. Anyway, can you tell me more about it?, i mean, what are you guys trying to accomplish with this?, just to show ppl that it can be done? or are you guys selling benchmark products or what?
Cool song btw…
Hey JF,
We built this project because it seemed like a good idea. This series is a collaborative social media project that serves as a platform for several parties to come together and create something interesting.
From Benchmark’s perspective, aside from simply getting the Benchmark name out, there are plenty of reasons we are doing this…
As an equipment manufacturer, its important that we actually use the gear and methods within the settings it is built for. This project tosses Benchmark’s people and products in the trenches to work together alongside some truly exceptional collaborators.
In the seminal days of music production, studio engineers and producers were also inventors, equipment designers, nuclear physicists, etc. They understood everything from biasing cathodes to counterpoint melodies. Their legacy is a cocktail of ingenuity and aptitude that birthed both modern popular music and modern recording studio infrastructure. They were pretty incredible, so it feels right to propagate their legacy.
Regarding the one-session constraint, it was implemented to keep the project simple, and it also happens to be one of my favorite aspects of first generation record-production.
All the best,
Elias
Yeah, sure all these classic artists cut songs, or multiple songs, in one day, but that’s because they had top notch tasteful players, and the number one most important thing- GREAT SONGS.
It’s a really good start, but this song needs a HOOK. I just wrote a pre-chorus and a hook in two minutes. It’s not that hard..and I don’t understand why indie bands can’t grasp this sometimes.
And I when I say hook, I mean a strong chorus. I know the horn parts are hooks and there’s some catchyness going on. I like the island thing the horns are doing and the groove is good.. but it just needs to GO somewhere, you know? Feels too much like it stagnates in one mode the whole time. Bjork part on the end isn’t bad but it’s too little too late.
Good idea though- I like the fact that you’re showing people what happens when music is made in a real studio and not a bedroom!
Yeah man, and KAS is such an AMAZING studio!! The reverb decay in that room sounds like the breath of angels!
Regarding the classic songs, I agree with you for the most part. But as a huge Patsy Cline fan, I crave a lot her recordings that don’t have ‘hooks’. Some standards that she recorded simply have great melodies and harmonic structures that make you melt. They might not be her most popular recordings, but that doesn’t change anything.
Thanks for listening! Sign up so you can be notified when the next video is released. We already recorded the next two sessions, and I’d like to hear your thoughts on them…
Take care,
Elias
Can’t wait to see/hear you on the charts…
Hey Eli – Awesome to see you doing your thing! And thanks to Jason for posting this to linked-in so I could find it. We all should have music videos of us at work!
HA! I agree!
Excellent performance!
I can’t wait to see next episode.
Awesome!
Feel free to sign-up to be notified about future videos.
So little sound for so much cool equipment. There is nothing here, but a really cool bunch of equipment. This could be done with a few quality mics in one take, be done. So much clutter, so little music, there’s nothing there. No wonder stuff today is so horrible, if this is how it’s being done. Need to go and search how teh Beatles did stuff in teh old days, with much less equipment. This is horrible sounding stuff out of what looks like a really cool studio, with all teh equipment.
Carl,
Got any specific suggestions about what we should have done differently?
Best,
Elias
I have to agree with Carl E. Recorded and mixed in 6 hours and it sounds like it. In fact it sounds as if it was done in 3. A very slapdash and sloppy performance accentuated by a hack mix and mastering job. Unlistenable by quality standards of any sort and the song and arrangement are as unimaginative as it is boring. You can’t just use irregular phrases in the writing and expect that to carry the thing off as being cool. If you’re going to do that, it has to be done well. The ensemble sections sound like a bombastic elementary school marching band and you can’t understand half of the lyrics. Then the whole thing is mastered to sound distorted like a pop piece of ****. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. The end product lives up to the band’s name in the true sense of the word.
And please don’t give me any of that “it’s not for everybody” crap. If the point of all of this was to showcase Benchmark mic preamplifiers and converters then you’ve missed your point. This is supposed to be good sound? All you’ve done is capture the ambiance of a great sounding room.
No, the point of this is not to showcase Benchmark mic preamplifiers and converters. The point is to pose an experiment and then document, observe, and discuss the results. In fact, that is exactly what you and I are doing, so I’d say the experiment was successful. As Edison said, “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” (Granted, Edison was a bit of a jerk…read about his treatment of Nikola Tesla here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edison#Work_relations)
But anyway, my opinion is wholly opposite of yours. Rubblebucket is a fantastic band, and I love the song. I’m proud my mix, and apparently you don’t understand mastering if you think that it is responsible for this souding “distorted like a pop piece of ****.” The distortion and ‘popiness’ was already there when it was sent to mastering.
But enough about us, tell us more about you! You seem to be quite an interesting person! And you speak as though you’re an expert in this…do you have a website where the rest of us can hear your work?
Thanks for contributing, and please keep in touch!
-Elias
You’re absolutely right. I don’t understand mastering. I haven’t heard a single record, cassette or CD of mine that was done right. I wouldn’t say all, but lots of them have gotten mangled and massacred to point where everything that was beautiful got slaughtered and everything ugly got brought forward. I used to enjoy this business immensely, but now I don’t even want my name on it because it ends up sounding so bad. There used to be a time where the process was to prepare and treat the material just to make it so it could get it on a record and sometimes one had to settle and make sacrifices because people were lazy. Nowadays nobody wants it unless it shatters the windshield of your car. And when I say pop piece of shit I mean the practice of mixing and mastering a tune where all the instruments sound as if they are competing for the same space.
Awesome Eli!
Why, thank you Courtney!
Nice track! You got us out of bed and had us dancing this morning!
Don’t tell your coffee that…it may feel some job-insecurity.
Great video, but it would be nice if the audio wasn’t ALL COMPRESSED, SQUASHED AND DISTORTED. I downloaded the high res file hoping it would be just that. Instead, I got high res distortion. I then looked at the file in an audio editor and confirmed what I was hearing. Peaks clipped off all over the place. Come on people, don’t do a disservice to the audio engineering and recording community by putting things like this out.
Thanks for the feedback. I mixed this in a way I thought was most effective for the track, but I understand if it’s not for everyone. Its not for every style, either. We just recorded a group for a future episode and its completely different. If you hear it, let me know what you think of it.
All the best,
Elias
Au contraire! The sound is excellent–way better than most YouTube stuff! All bands should record together like this. You can feel it in the playing! Though it’s hard to tell, but it seems that that Benchmark gear makes Pro Tools sound ok. Or maybe it’s the arrangement, musicians, engineering…Love the Keith Monks stands too! FANTASTIC JOB!
Thanks John!
The quality of artists and song definitely made my job easier.
Ps. Is this THE John Siket ( http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&searchlink=JOHN|SIKET&sql=11:fpfyxqrgldhe~T4 )? If so, I am a huge fan of your work!
Yes, that’s me. I just listened to this today and I still think it stands up sonically. My only suggestion being some background vocals of some sort. Good job though!
LOVE the project. Thanks for doing it and sharing. I am not nearly as harsh as the original poster, but I have to agree, it’s awfully compressed. At least the 88k high rez AIFF. I didn’t notice any distortion. But whatever happened to dynamic range? When I ran a histogram in Cooledit, wow, very steep and slim curve way to the far right with the average sound level at about -10db. The variation between the loudest and softest parts were only about 15db. I guess these days of low rez playback devices like earbuds and Youtube, engineers compress the hell out of everything but that’s too bad. Compare that to the Telarc recording of 1812 Overture which starts out extremely soft and quiet and, of course, ends with huge cannon blasts. Now that’s dynamic range. Please keep up the otherwise great work. I’d love to see a high compression vs. less compression file released to download. One for earbuds and ipods, the other for systems the Benchmark DAC 1 might be hooked up to.
to Andrew ,
haven’t heard the track – just enlisted, but for my ears ( I played jazz drums in the ’60 – record cys are just killing the music. They think people only listen through ipods and similar junk. I’ll keep treasuring my jazz&classical LP collection
though I have to admit that remastering of ’60 -’70 – records, especially through Sony’s SBM really does wonders.
ettore
Sorry, one more this to say:
This track is obviously nothing like the 1812 Overture! This is pop music! Pop music has nothing to do with reality! It’s for the radio, for people to dance to, compression is a part of what makes pop music sound like it does … you need SOME compression to make your track work on any playback environment … including the radio and laptop speakers.
Agreed, except that I wasn’t considering radio and/or laptop speakers when I mixed this. I mixed it to sound the way I heard it in my head.
I don’t mean to sound pretentious, but this is art! I can’t imagine a painter choosing color’s based on the specs of iPhone screens!!
Similarly, I would expect the painter to create whatever they felt achieved their goals/vision/effect, regardless of ‘linearity’ w/ respect to reality. So, in the case of music production, I also take liberties to deviate from ‘realism’. My aim is to collude w/ my collaborators to induce physical, emotional, and/or mental sensations within the listener. Sometimes the raw recordings of instruments work best towards those ends, but sometimes electronically modified versions of those recordings work better towards those ends.
As producer, my role is to ask the questions that determine the global goal/vision of the production, then aim the parts of the process towards that goal/vision. As mix engineer, my role is to utilize my tools, when necessary, without discretion, to achieve the global goal/vision.
I fear the people commenting that this is ‘overcompressed’ and it’s lacking dynamic range are referring to the mastering stage where it would have been limited etc.. to reach a commercial volume, yeah? It’s a very popular thing to moan about .. but these moaners don’t discern between mix compression and mastering compression/limiting … so I’m sure they’re not dissing your mix Elias! Ironically, things like the beatles and Led Zep were very compressed at times in the tracking and mixing stage (drums, vocals etc..), but the masters weren’t peak limited .. so when these people load them into audacity they look better. I find the discussion around the loudness war and ‘loss of dynamics’ doesn’t ever concern the quality of the mix itself, and well MIXED albums, such as recent Red Hot Chili Peppers albums, are written off for audio quality because they are mastered loudly. Did you guys master this in the same session? It’s a loud, commercial, modern master, fair enough.
/rant.
Fantastic mix! Snare in particular – Phat. What kind of compression did you guys do on the vocal? Is the vocal ambience mainly the room?
Hey Adam, thanks for your comments.
Actually, most of the compression was applied in the mix phase. On the vocals, we used a blackface UREI 1176. Yes, the vocal ambience is 95% actual room, 5% plate verb.
We are just about to release the multi-track from this session so you can hear each instrument w/o any processing. We may even have a mix contest w/ a sweet prize!! Sign-up (in the email form by the video above) to be notified.
Thanks,
-Elias
I have to agree with this comment. Everything’s up at one volume – max.
Sign of the times….
Thanks for the free track, but I gotta agree with the preceding comment re: the painfully poor sound quality. A real disservice to the band and to Benchmark, both of which deserve better. Just say no to compression. Bring back real music with real dynamic contrast!
Hey Glenn, Bootzilla,
Did you download and listen to the uncompressed version (just to the right of the video frame on this page)? YouTube is notorious for destroying the quality of the audio, so don’t judge the quality of audio from the video. Download the lossless track…it’s free!
Here’s my perspective on production decisions. When I mixed this, I mixed it from the drummers point of view. The reason for this is that it is a dance track, so the drums and bass are in the foreground, and everything else goes into the ‘depth-of-field’.
Any compression used was not for the sake of loudness, but to put the ‘thump in the bump’. The kick is the only instrument with any significant compression. I produced this in a way that I thought was best suited for the artist and song, and the participants are very happy with it. I think it sounds pretty good too.
I know that there will always be some listeners who don’t approve of some production choices, but aiming to please everyone would be more of a disservice to the artists/participants then the primary objective to produce an effective track.
Now, the next two sessions for this project sound MUCH different. The next group doesn’t have a drum set, they are mostly acoustic, and have an incredibly lush sound… Consequently, my production choices were much different, and it sounds much different.
Check out the next few, and let me know what you think.
Thanks for writing…
-Elias
if you ever want a Funk track/ session I got the Players of Doom from NYC area.
Hey Sean,
Thanks for the referral. Do they have a website?
Best,
Elias
Respected Sir,
My name is samson sound engineer. working in local studio. pls help me sending some of the new productions etc coming days. I’ll do my level best of my service.
I wish to thank with my core heart for this contacting and aiding for us. it is fentastic show to me and my studio lifes.
Thanking you in anticipation.
God bless you
samson manohar
india
Mobile No: 9884426521
Thanks for watching, Samson!
This is great !!!!!
Congratulations, sound is fantastic.
Thanks Arturo! We are filming two more this weekend, so sign-up for notifications if you want to know when they are available.